R D Laing: Selected Works

Volume 7

Knots

R D Laing

London and New York

First published 1970 by Tavistock Publications Limited This edition published in the Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2005.

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© 1970 R D Laing

This is a reprint of the 1970 edition

All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reprinted or reproduced or utilised in any form or by any electronic,

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British Library Cataloguing in Publication Data

A catalogue record for this book is available from the British Library

Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication Data

ISBN 0-203-21048-4 Master e-book ISBN

ISBN 0-203-21060-3 (Adobe eReader Format)

ISBN 0-415-19824-0 (Print Edition)

The patterns delineated here have not yet been classified by a Linnaeus of human bondage.

They are all, perhaps, strangely, familiar.

In these pages I have confined myself to

laying out only some of those I actually have

seen. Words that come to mind to name them

are: knots, tangles, fankles, impasses,

disjunctions, whirligogs, binds.

I could have remained closer to the ‘raw’ data

in which these patterns appear. I could have

distilled them further towards an abstract

logico-mathematical, calculus. I hope they are

not so schematized that one may not refer

back to the very specific experiences from

which they derive; yet that they are sufficiently

independent of ‘content’, for one to divine the

final formal elegance in these webs of maya.

April 1969 R.D.L.

1

They are playing a game. They are playing at

not playing a game. If I show them I see they

are, I shall break the rules and they will

punish me.

I must play their game, of not seeing I see

the game.

They are not having fun.

I can’t have fun if they don’t.

If I get them to have fun, then I can have

fun with them.

Getting them to have fun, is not fun. It is

hard work.

2 KNOTS

I might get fun out of finding out why

they’re not.

I’m not supposed to get fun out of working

out why

they’re not.

But there is even some fun in pretending

to them I’m not

having fun finding out why they’re not.

A little girl comes along and says: let’s

have fun.

But having fun is a waste of time, because

it doesn’t

help to figure out why they’re not having

fun.

How dare you have fun when Christ died

on the Cross

for you! Was He having fun?

It is our duty to bring up our children to

love,

KNOTS 3

honour and obey us.

If they don’t, they must be punished,

otherwise we would not be doing our duty.

If they grow up to love, honour and obey us

we have been blessed for bringing them up

properly.

If they grow up not to love, honour and

obey us

either we have brought them up

properly

or we have not:

if we have

there must be something the matter

with them;

if we have not

there is something the matter with us.

A son should respect his father

He should not have to be taught to respect

his father

4 KNOTS

It is something that is natural

That’s how I’ve brought up my son

anyway.

Of course a father must be worthy of

respect

He can forfeit a son’s respect

But I hope at least that my son will

respect me, if

only for leaving him free to respect me or

not.

There must be something the matter with

him

because he would not be acting as he

does

unless there was

therefore he is acting as he is

because there is something the matter

with him

KNOTS 5

He does not think there is anything the

matter with him

because

one of the things that is

the matter with him

is that he does not think that there is

anything

the matter with him

therefore

we have to help him realize that,

the fact that he does not think there is

anything

the matter with him

is one of the things that is

the matter with him

there is something the matter with him

because he thinks

there must be something the matter

with us

for trying to help him to see

6 KNOTS

that there must be something the matter

with him

to think that there is something the

matter with us

for trying to help him to see that

we are helping him

to see that

we are not persecuting him

by helping him

to see we are not persecuting him

by helping him

to see that

he is refusing to see

that there is something the matter with

him

for not seeing there is something the

matter

with him

for not being grateful to us

for at least trying to help him

KNOTS 7

to see that there is something the

matter with

him

for not seeing that there must be

something the

matter with him

for not seeing that there must be

something the

matter with him

for not seeing that there is something the

matter

with him

for not seeing that there is something the

matter

with him

for not being grateful

that we never tried to make him

feel grateful

8 KNOTS

It is the duty of children to respect their

parents

And it is the duty of parents to teach their

children

to respect them,

by setting them a good example.

Parents who do not set their children a

good example

don’t deserve respect.

If we do set them a good example

we believe they will grow up to be grateful

to us

when they become parents themselves.

If he is cheeky

he doesn’t respect you

for not punishing him

for not respecting you

You shouldn’t spoil a child.

It’s the easy way, to do what they want

KNOTS 9

but they won’t respect you for letting them

get away

with it when they grow up.

He won’t respect you

if you don’t punish him

for not respecting you.

My mother loves me.

I feel good.

I feel good because she loves me.

I am good because I feel good

I feel good because I am good

My mother loves me because I am good.

My mother does not love me.

I feel bad.

I feel bad because she does not love me

I am bad because I feel bad

I feel bad because I am bad

I am bad because she does not love me

She does not love me because I am bad.

10 KNOTS

I don’t feel good

therefore I am bad

therefore no one loves me.

I feel good

therefore I am good

therefore everyone loves me.

I am good

You do not love me

therefore you are bad. So I do not love

you.

I am good

You love me

therefore you are good. So I love you.

I am bad

You love me

therefore you are bad.

Mother loves me

because she is good

I am bad, to think she is bad

KNOTS 11

therefore if I am good

she is good

and loves me

because I am good

to know she is good.

I am bad

to doubt she punishes me for doubting

she loves me by punishing me

for doubting she loves me.

She says

it must be her fault

if I doubt she loves me.

She feels bad because

I don’t think she loves me because

she feels bad when I don’t think she

loves me.

She feels

it is her fault

that I can be so cruel

as to doubt she loves me

12 KNOTS

when she makes me feel cruel,

to think she tries to make me feel

cruel.

To be kind is good. To be cruel is bad.

It is bad to feel mother is cruel to me, and

hence bad.

Mother is cruel to me

but she is only being cruel to be kind

because I thought she was cruel when

she was cruel

in punishing me

because I was cruel to her

to think she was cruel to me

for punishing me

for thinking she was cruel

for punishing me

for thinking….

You are cruel

to make me feel bad to think

KNOTS 13

I am cruel to make you feel cruel

by me feeling bad that you can be so

cruel as to think

I don’t love you, when you know I do.

If you don’t know I do there must be

something the matter with you.

it hurts Jack

to think

that Jill thinks he is hurting her

by (him) being hurt

to think

that she thinks he is hurting her

by making her feel guilty

at hurting him

by (her) thinking

that he is hurting her

by (his) being hurt

to think

that she thinks he is hurting her

14 KNOTS

by the fact that

da capo sine fine

2

Once upon a time, when Jack was little,

he wanted to be with his mummy all the

time

and was frightened she would go away

later, when he was a little bigger,

he wanted to be away from his mummy

and was frightened that

she wanted him to be with her all the time

when he grew up he fell in love with Jill

and he wanted to be with her all the time

and was frightened she would go away

16 KNOTS

when he was a little older,

he did not want to be with Jill all the time

he was frightened

that she wanted to be with him all the

time, and

that she was frightened

that he did not want to be with her all the

time

Jack frightens Jill he will leave her

because he is frightened she will leave him.

Jack is afraid Jill is like his mother

Jill is afraid Jack is like her mother

Jack is afraid

Jill thinks he is like her mother

and that Jill is afraid

Jack thinks she is like his mother

Jill is afraid

KNOTS 17

Jack thinks she is like his mother

and that Jack is afraid

Jill thinks he is like her mother

Jack wants to devour his mother and be

devoured by her later, he oscillates between

wanting to devour her but not wanting to be

devoured by her, and not wanting to devour

her but wanting her to devour him.

Later still, he does not want to devour her

and does

not want her to devour him.

Jack feels Jill is devouring him.

He is devoured

by his devouring fear of

being devoured by

her devouring desire

for him to devour her.

He feels she is eating him

18 KNOTS

by her demand to be eaten by him

Two people who originally

wished to devour and be devoured

are devouring and being devoured

She is devoured, by him being devoured

by

her devouring desire to be devoured

He is devoured by her being devoured

by him not devouring her

He is being devoured

by his dread of being devoured

She is being devoured

by her desire to be devoured

His dread of being devoured

arises from his dread of being devoured by

his devouring

Her desire to be devoured

arises from her dread of her desire to

devour

JILL

KNOTS 19

I don’t respect myself

I can’t respect anyone who respects me.

I can only respect someone who does not

respect me.

I respect Jack

because he does not respect me

I despise Tom

because he does not despise me

Only a despicable person

can respect someone as despicable as me

I cannot love someone I despise

Since I love Jack

I cannot believe he loves me

What proof can he give?

Jill feels safe to be angry with Jack

because Jack does nothing

She is angry with Jack

because he does nothing

She is angry with Jack

20 KNOTS

because he does not frighten her

He does not frighten her

because, doing nothing, he is useless.

She feels safe with him,

therefore she despises him

She clings to him

because he does not frighten her

She despises him

because she clings to him

because he does not frighten her

Jill knows she is inferior

therefore, she is superior to anyone who

thinks she

is superior to him.

JILL I am frightened

JACK Don’t be frightened

JILL I am frightened to be frightened when

you tell me I ought not to feel frightened

KNOTS 21

frightened

frightened to be frightened

not frightened to be frightened

not frightened

frightened not to be frightened

not frightened to be not frightened

JILL I’m upset you are upset

JACK I’m not upset

JILL I’m upset that you’re not upset that I’m

upset you’re upset

JACK I’m upset that you’re upset that I’m not

upset that you’re upset that I’m upset,

when I’m not.

JILL You put me in the wrong

JACK I am not putting you in the wrong

JILL You put me in the wrong for thinking you

put me in the wrong.

JACK Forgive me

JILL No

JACK I’ll never forgive you for not forgiving me

22 KNOTS

JILL You think I am stupid

JACK I don’t think you’re stupid

JILL I must be stupid to think you think I’m

stupid if you don’t: or you must be lying.

I am stupid every way:

to think I’m stupid, if I am stupid

to think I’m stupid, if I’m not stupid

to think you think I’m stupid, if you

don’t.

JILL I’m ridiculous

JACK No you are not

JILL I’m ridiculous to feel ridiculous when I’m

not. You must

be laughing at me

for feeling you are laughing at me

if you are not laughing at me.

How clever has one to be to be stupid?

The others told her she was stupid. So she

made

KNOTS 23

herself stupid in order not to see how

stupid

they were to think she was stupid,

because it was bad to think they were

stupid.

She preferred to be stupid and good,

rather than bad and clever.

It is bad to be stupid: she needs to be

clever

to be so good and stupid.

It is bad to be clever, because this shows

how stupid they were

to tell her how stupid she was.

It is boring that you are frightened

you are boring me by being interested in

me.

In trying to be interesting,

you are very boring.

You are frightened of being boring, you

24 KNOTS

try to be interesting by not being

interested,

but are interested only in not being

boring.

You are not interested in me.

You are only interested that I be interested

in you.

You pretend to be bored

because I am not interested

that you are frightened

that I am not frightened

that you are not interested in me.

JACK The trouble with you is that you are

envious of me

JILL The trouble with you is that’s what you

think

JACK You never give me credit for anything.

You can’t bear to admit that I’ve got it.

JILL That’s where you go wrong. You can’t

bear to admit I don’t care.

KNOTS 25

JACK You’re just like my mother.

JILL You certainly treat me like her

JACK Well don’t behave like her then

JILL You’re trying to destroy me because you

hate her.

JACK Can’t you stop projecting. You’re the one

that’s frigid

JILL I wasn’t when I met you.

JACK You might try not biting off your cunt to

spite my prick

JILL When you get to that level I feel hopeless

JACK That’s a start anyway. That’s the first

time today you’ve admitted any feeling of

inadequacy.

JILL Can’t we just be friends

JACK Of course. I’m friends with you all the

time.

I’m happy you’re happy

I’m unhappy you’re unhappy

Jack’s unhappy that Jill’s unhappy

26 KNOTS

Jill’s unhappy that Jack’s unhappy

that Jill’s unhappy that Jack’s

unhappy

that Jill’s unhappy

Jill is guilty to be unhappy

if Jack is unhappy that Jill is

unhappy….

Jack is guilty that Jill is unhappy

because he feels that he should make

her happy

Jill feels guilty

that Jack feels guilty

that Jill feels guilty

that Jack feels guilty

He can’t be happy

when there is so much suffering in the

world

She can’t be happy

if he is unhappy

KNOTS 27

She wants to be happy

He does not feel entitled to be happy

She wants him to be happy

and he wants her to be happy

He feels guilty if he is happy

and guilty if she is not happy

She wants both to be happy

He wants her to be happy

So they are both unhappy

He accuses her of being selfish

because she is trying to get him to be

happy

so that she can be happy

She accuses him of being selfish

because he is only thinking of himself

He thinks he is thinking of the whole

cosmos

She thinks she is mainly thinking of him

because she loves him

28 KNOTS

How can she be happy

when the man she loves is unhappy

He feels she is blackmailing him

by making him feel guilty

because she is unhappy that he is

unhappy

She feels he is trying to destroy her love

for him

by accusing her of being selfish

when the trouble is

that she can’t be so selfish as to be happy

when the man she loves is unhappy

She feels that there must be something

wrong with her

to love someone who can be so cruel

as to destroy her love for him

and is too guilty to be happy, and is

unhappy because

he is guilty

KNOTS 29

He feels that he is unhappy because he is

guilty

to be happy when others are unhappy and

that he made

a mistake to marry someone who can only

think of

happiness.

She has started to drink

as a way to cope

that makes her less able to cope

the more she drinks

the more frightened she is of becoming a

drunkard

the more drunk

the less frightened of being drunk

the more frightened of being drunk when

not drunk

the more not frightened drunk

the more frightened not drunk

30 KNOTS

the more she destroys herself

the more frightened of being destroyed by

him

the more frightened of destroying him

the more she destroys herself

JACK You are a pain in the neck

To stop you giving me a pain in the neck

I protect my neck by tightening my neck

muscles, which gives me the pain in the

neck you are.

JILL My head aches through trying to stop

you giving giving me a headache.

Narcissus fell in love with his image,

taking it to

be another.

Jack falls in love with Jill’s image of Jack,

taking

it to be himself.

KNOTS 31

She must not die, because then he would

lose himself.

He is jealous in case any one else’s image

is reflected

in her mirror.

Jill is a distorting mirror to herself.

Jill has to distort herself to appear

undistorted

to herself.

To undistort herself, she finds Jack to

distort her

distorted image in his distorting mirror

She hopes that his distortion of her

distortion may

undistort her image without her having to

distort herself.

I never got what I wanted.

I always got what I did not want.

What I want

32 KNOTS

I shall not get.

Therefore, to get it

I must not want it

since I get only what I don’t want.

what I want, I can’t get

what I get, I don’t want

I can’t get it

because I want it

I get it

because I don’t want it.

I want what I can’t get

because

what I can’t get is what I want

I don’t want what I can get

because

what I can get is what I don’t want

I never get what I want

I never want what I get

I get what I deserve

KNOTS 33

I deserve what I get.

I have it,

therefore I deserve it

I deserve it

because I have it.

You have not got it

therefore you do not deserve it

You do not deserve it

because you have not got it

You have not got it

because you do not deserve it

You do not deserve it

therefore you have not got it.

I am not entitled to what I have

therefore everything I have is stolen.

If I’ve got it,

and I am not entitled to it,

I must have stolen it,

because I am not entitled to it.

34 KNOTS

I am not entitled to it

because I have stolen it.

I have stolen it

therefore I am not entitled to it.

I am not entitled to it

therefore I must have stolen it.

Or, it has been given to me as a special

favour

by someone who is entitled to it

so I am expected to be grateful for all I

have

because what I have

has been given, not stolen.

KNOTS 35

36 KNOTS

Positive and negative binds.

Negative: Can’t win. Everything I do is wrong.

Positive: Can’t lose. Everything I do is right.

KNOTS 37

I do it, because it is right.

It is right, because I do it.

I want it

I get it

therefore I am good

I want it

I don’t get it

therefore I am bad

I am bad

because I didn’t get it

I am bad

because I wanted what I didn’t get

I must take care

to get what I want

and want what I get

and not get what I don’t want

good

get

want

can

bad

not-get

not-want

cannot

38 KNOTS

I can get what I want

I can’t get what I want

I can get what I don’t want

I can’t get what I don’t want

I tend to not get what I want

So

to get what I want

I pretend not to want it

I am bad to want what I can’t get

I haven’t got it

therefore I am bad to want it

If I am bad to want it

I shall be no less bad for getting it

I am bad to feel bad, and

bad to feel good

because the badder one is

the less bad one feels

There is something the matter with me

because I do

not feel anything the matter with me

KNOTS 39

What one has,

has been given one

therefore everything one has

one is entitled to.

The more one has

the better one is

because the more one has been

rewarded

for being good.

Therefore I get better and better

through ‘making’ more and more

40 KNOTS

All I have has been given me and is mine

If I have it, I must have been given it

Therefore it is mine.

I haven’t it

but I can get it

therefore,

because I have been given the capacity

to get it

it is mine.

It is not mine

but it has been given me and I have it

therefore I am grateful for what I have, or

have been given.

But I resent being grateful

because if I have been given it, it has not

always been mine.

therefore, if I don’t feel grateful

I won’t have been given it

therefore, it is (past, present, future)

eternally mine.

KNOTS 41

But,

if it is mine

it is not me .....1

and if it is not me

it is not mine .....3

Therefore,

if,

if it is not me

it is not mine .....3

and if,

42 KNOTS

if it is not mine

it is not me .....2

and if,

if mine

it is not me .....1

then,

if it’s not me

it’s mine .....5

If it’s not me it’s mine .....5 poco a

If it’s mine it’s not me .....1 poco

If it’s mine it’s not me .....1 accelerando

al fine

If it’s not me

It’s not mine .....3

if it’s not mine

it’s not me .....2

if it’s not me

it’s mine .....5

If, if it’s mine

it is not me .....1

KNOTS 43

if it is not me

it’s not mine .....3

then,

If it’s mine, it’s not mine .....6

If, if it’s mine, it’s not mine .....6

if (1 2 3 4/1 3/3 2 1 5/5 1 1 3 2 5 1 3)

then,

If it’s mine

it’s me .....7

44 KNOTS

if, if it’s mine

it’s me ….7

if (1 2 3 4 1 3 3 2 1 5 5 1 1 3 2 5 1 3 6

6 2 5 1 3 5)

if it’s me, it’s mine .....4

if it’s mine it’s not me .....1

then if it’s not me it’s not mine .....3

hence,

If it’s not mine it’s me .....8

If it’s not mine it’s me .....8

if (1..... 5 7 7 4 1 3)

if it’s me

it’s mine .....4

if it’s mine it’s not mine .....6

if it’s not mine it’s not me .....2

if it’s not me

it’s mine .....5

Then,

If it’s not mine it’s mine .....9

If it’s not mine it’s mine .....9

KNOTS 45

if (1..... 3 8 8 4 6 2 5)

if it’s mine it’s not mine

if it’s not mine it’s mine

if it’s mine is not me

if not me is not mine

if not mine

is me

if me is not mine

46 KNOTS

if not mine is not me

then, if not me, it is me

if not me, it is me

if it is me, it is not mine

if it is not mine it is not me

if it is not me, it is me

if it is me

it is not mine

if it is not mine

it is me

if it is me, it is mine

if it is mine

it is not me

therefore if it is not me

it is mine

if it is mine it is mine

if it is mine it is mine

if it is mine it is not mine

if it is not mine it is mine

if it is mine, it is mine

KNOTS 47

if it is mine, it is not mine

if it is not mine,

it is me

if it is me it is mine

if it is mine it is not me

if it is not me it is me

if it is me

it is not me

if it is not me

it is me

if it’s me, if it’s not me

if it’s not me, if it’s me

if it’s me if it’s me

if it’s me if it’s not me

if it’s not me if it’s not me

it’s me if it’s not me

if it’s not me, it’s me

if it’s me it’s not me

if it’s not me it’s me

if it’s me,

48 KNOTS

if it’s not me.

if it’s me

if it’s not me

if it’s me

if it’s not me

if it’s me

if it’s not me, it’s me

if it’s not me it’s not me

it’s not me if it’s me

if it’s me it’s me

it’s me if it’s not me

if it’s not me, it’s not me

if it’s not me, it’s me

it’s me if it’s me

if it’s not me it’s not me

it’s not me if it’s not me

if it’s me, it’s me

if it’s me, it’s me

I am it

if it is not me

KNOTS 49

if it is not me, I am it, if I am not it, I

am it, if I am it, I am not it

She wants him to want her

He wants her to want him

To get him to want her

she pretends she wants him

To get her to want him

he pretends he wants her

Jack wants Jill wants

Jill’s want of Jack Jack’s want of

Jill

so so

Jack tells Jill Jill tells Jack

Jack wants Jill Jill wants Jack

a perfect contract

Jill and Jack both want to be wanted.

Jill wants Jack because he wants to be

wanted

50 KNOTS

Jack wants Jill because she wants to be

wanted.

Jill wants Jack to want

*Jill to want

Jack’s want of her want

for his want of her want of

Jack’s want that Jill wants

Jack to want

Jill to want

Jack’s want of her want

for his want of

her to want Jack to want*

*repeat sine fine

She does not get what she wants from him

so she feels that he is mean

She cannot give him what he wants from

her

so she feels that he is greedy

KNOTS 51

He does not get what he wants from

her

so he feels that she is mean

and

he cannot give her what she wants from

him

so he feels that she is greedy

Jill thinks Jack is mean and greedy

Jack thinks Jill is mean and greedy

the more Jill feels that Jack is mean

the more greedy Jack feels Jill to be

the more Jill feels Jack is greedy

the more mean Jack feels Jill to be

the more greedy Jack feels Jill to be

the more mean Jill feels Jack to be

the more mean Jill feels Jack to be

the more greedy Jack feels Jill to be

Jack feels Jill is greedy

because Jill feels Jack is mean

52 KNOTS

Jill feels Jack is mean

because Jack feels Jill is greedy

Jack feels Jill is mean

because Jill feels Jack is greedy

Jill feels Jack is greedy

because Jack feels Jill is mean

KNOTS 53

54 KNOTS

The more

Jack feels Jill is mean to feel he is

greedy

the more

Jill feels Jack is mean

to feel she is mean to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

The more Jill feels Jack is mean

KNOTS 55

to feel she is mean to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

the more Jack feels Jill is mean

to feel

Jack is mean

to feel she is mean

to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

because she does not give him what he

wants

He wants her to be more generous

in her judgement about him,

namely, not feel he is mean

to feel she is mean

to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

to feel he is mean

to feel she is mean

to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

56 KNOTS

She feels

he is asking too much (greedy)

to expect her,

not to feel he is asking too much

(greedy)

to expect her

not to feel he is mean and greedy

to feel she is mean

to feel he is greedy

to feel she is mean

to feel he is mean

to feel she is mean

to feel he is greedy

to feel she is greedy

when all she wants is that

he be more generous in his judgement

about her

namely, not to feel she is mean

to feel he is mean

to feel she is greedy

KNOTS 57

to feel he is mean

to feel she is mean

to feel he is mean

to feel she is greedy

to feel he is mean

to want her to be more generous in her

judgement about him namely,

3

If I don’t know I don’t know

I think I know

If I don’t know I know

I think I don’t know

There is something I don’t know

that I am supposed to know.

I don’t know what it is I don’t know,

and yet am supposed to know,

and I feel I look stupid

if I seem both not to know it

and not know what it is I don’t know.

KNOTS 59

This is nerve-racking

since I don’t know what I must pretend

to know.

Therefore I pretend to know everything.

I feel you know what I am supposed to

know

but you can’t tell me what it is

because you don’t know that I don’t know

what it is.

You may know what I don’t know, but not

that I don’t know it,

and I can’t tell you. So you will have to tell

me everything.

Jack can see that he sees

what Jill can’t see

and that Jill can’t see Jill can’t see it

Jack can see that he sees

what Jill can’t see

but Jack can’t see

60 KNOTS

that Jill can’t see

that Jill can’t see it

Jack tries to get Jill to see

that Jack can see

what Jill can’t see

but Jack can’t see

that Jill can’t see that Jill can’t see it

Jack sees

there is something Jill can’t see

and Jack sees

that Jill can’t see she can’t see it

Although Jack can see Jill can’t see she can’t

see it

he can’t see that he can’t see it himself

Jack can see

1. there is something Jill can’t see

2. and that she can see there is something

she can’t see

KNOTS 61

3. but that she can’t see what she can’t see although

(Jack can see that)

4. she can see Jack can see whatever it is

she can see she can’t see

but can’t see what.

Jack thinks

he does not know

what he thinks

Jill thinks

he does not know

But Jill thinks Jack does know it.

So Jill does not know

she does not know

that Jack does not know

that Jill thinks

that Jack does know

and Jack does not know he does not know

that Jill does not know she does not

know

62 KNOTS

that Jack does not know

that Jill thinks Jacks knows

what Jack thinks he does not know

Jack doesn’t know he knows

and he doesn’t know

Jill does not know.

Jill doesn’t know she doesn’t know,

and doesn’t know

that Jack doesn’t know he knows

and that he does not know Jill does

not know.

They have no problem.

Jack thinks that

what he knows that Jill does not,

is that there is nothing to be known

of the order Jill is seeking to know,

but that Jill has to discover this for

herself.

KNOTS 63

Jill thinks

Jack knows what

Jill thinks Jill doesn’t know.

Jack does not know

there is something to know

that Jill thinks

she does not and

Jack does.

So Jack persuades Jill that there is

nothing to know.

Jack

knows he does not know

and sees that Jill

does not know she knows.

By telling Jack

what Jack knows he does not know

Jill helps Jack to help Jill

to know she knows

what she does not know she knows.

64 KNOTS

Jill however

thinks

she knows she does not know

and that Jack knows

she knows she does not know

and that Jack knows

what Jill does not know.

Jill thinks

that there is something she knows

and that she does not know she knows

it.

She thinks Jack does not know it

and that Jack knows he does not.

Jill hopes that through Jack

Jill will

know that she knows

what Jack knows he does not—

but only if Jack can realize

that Jill knows

KNOTS 65

what Jack knows Jack does not

and Jill does not know she does.

Jack knows he does not know.

Jill thinks she knows what Jack does not

know, but

she does not know he does not know it.

Jack does not know

Jill does not know he does not know,

and thinks she knows what he knows he

doesn’t.

Jack believes Jill.

Jack now does not know he does not know.

One happy ending.

Jack thinks Jack sees what he does not,*

and that Jill sees what she does not see.

Jill believes Jack.

She now thinks she sees what Jack thinks

Jack sees

and that Jack sees it too.

66 KNOTS

They may now both be completely wrong.

Jack does not see something.

Jill thinks Jack does see it.

Jack thinks Jack does see it and Jill does

not.

Jill does not see herself what

she thinks Jack does see.

Jack tells Jill

what Jack thinks Jill does not see.

Jill realizes

that,

if Jack thinks

Jill does not see that,

* This is ambiguous. Jack thinks he is seeing an illusion; is he right or wrong? Jack thinks he is not under an illusion. Is he right or wrong? Try it anyway.

KNOTS 67

which Jill thinks she does,

Jack does not see

what Jill thought

Jack saw.

Jill thinks

Jack thinks

Jill does not see something.

Jack does think

Jill sees it

but Jack does not see

Jill thinks

Jack thinks

Jill does not see.

Jill thinks she can’t see what she thinks

Jack can see,

and that Jack himself thinks that

Jill does not see it.

Jack sees Jill does see it

68 KNOTS

that she thinks she does not,

and that she thinks

he thinks

she does not

But Jack can’t see what Jill can’t see

whereby she thinks she can’t see what

Jack thinks she can,

and thinks he thinks she can’t.

For example:

Jill thinks

Jack thinks Jill is stupid.

Jack does not think Jill is stupid,

but cannot see why

Jill thinks Jack thinks Jill is,

when Jack does not.

Nor can Jill, except that Jack is lying.

Jack sees

KNOTS 69

Jill can’t see Jill can’t see

and that

Jill can’t see

Jack can see and

see he sees

what Jill can’t see she can’t.

Jack tries to get Jill to

realize that there may be something

she can’t see she can’t see.

Jill thinks Jill sees it

and can see that Jack thinks

Jill thinks she sees it

but that Jack thinks

Jill can’t see she can’t.

Jill thinks

Jack can’t see he can’t see

what he thinks he can,

and that he can’t see (therefore)

that she sees what he thinks he sees

but doesn’t.

70 KNOTS

Jack thinks he knows

Jill thinks Jill does not know

Jack tells Jill

what Jack knows

and knows he knows

and knows Jill does not know

and knows Jill sometimes

thinks she knows

when she does not.

Sometimes Jack feels

Jill idealizes Jack, making him

omniscient (omnipotent)

so he points out to Jill

that he is only human,

he does not know everything and can’t do

everything.

Jack says Jill

makes Jack

omnipotent, to remain impotent, to make

Jack

KNOTS 71

impotent to make her potent, to

destroy Jack’s

potency, which she envies….

Jill thinks Jack is wrong.

Jack thinks

he does not know what (he can see)

Jill thinks Jack knows,

and that Jill knows

what Jill thinks Jack knows,

that he thinks

he does not.

Jack tells Jill:

‘You think I know this,

but I don’t.’

Jill thinks he does, but refuses to tell her.

Jack knows he does not know,

but he does not know that Jill does not

know

72 KNOTS

she does not know he knows he does

not know.

Jack thinks that

and that Jill realizes that that is what he thinks,

but that she thinks he is wrong.

KNOTS 73

Jack sees that

Jill does not know

Jack does not know what

Jill thinks

Jack knows.

But Jack can’t see

why Jill does not know

that Jack does not know

what Jill thinks

he knows.

Jack realizes that he knows

Jill does not know

Jack knows

he doesn’t know

what she thinks

he does

but that this is not what she thinks he

knows.

74 KNOTS

Moreover Jack sees that Jill herself knows

what Jill

thinks Jack knows, but that Jill does not

realize

she knows it.

Jack sees that

Jill knows

what Jill thinks

Jack knows

and that Jill does not know

she knows

and Jack knows he does not.

He cannot tell Jill

what it is

since, although he can see Jill knows it,

he does not know it himself.

Jill does not know

Jack does not know X,

KNOTS 75

and Jack cannot tell her more than that

there is

something, he does not know what,

he does not know.

There is something Jack can’t see.

He knows there is something he can’t see,

but doesn’t know what it is that he can’t

see.

But Jack can see Jill can see

that Jack can’t see something.

Jack doesn’t know

what he doesn’t know

but he thinks

Jill knows whatever the something is

which he doesn’t know.

Jack can’t tell Jill what he

wants Jill to tell him.

Jill can’t tell him either

because although Jill knows X

76 KNOTS

Jill does not know

that Jack does not know X.

Jack can see

that Jill knows

he realizes that she

does not know she knows X.

Jill can only discover

she knows it

by realizing what Jack does not

But Jill

cannot see what

Jack does not know.

If she did she would be glad to tell him.

Jack can see he sees

what he can see Jill can’t see

and he can see

that Jill can’t see that she can’t see

but he can’t see WHY

Jill can’t see that Jill can’t see.

KNOTS 77

Jill

can see that he does not understand

her

and can see that he can’t see that he

doesn’t:

and she can see

that he can’t see that he can’t see

she sees he can’t see he doesn’t.

Why does she still feel confused?

She cannot understand why he can’t see

that

she sees that he can’t see that he does not

understand.

Jill can see Jack can’t see,

and can’t see he can’t see.

Jill can see WHY

Jack can’t see,

but Jill cannot see WHY

Jack can’t see he can’t see.

78 KNOTS

Jack ‘sees’ Jill is blind

and that Jill can’t see she is.

Jack realizes they both are.

If the blind must lead the blind, it is as well

that the leader knows he is.

Jack can’t see he can’t see

and can’t see

Jill can’t see Jill can’t see it.

and vice versa

4

Jack is afraid of Jill

Jill is afraid of Jack

Jack is more afraid of Jill Jill is more

afraid of Jack

if Jack thinks if Jill thinks

that Jill thinks that Jack thinks

that Jack is afraid of Jill that Jill is

afraid of Jack

Since Jack is afraid

that Jill will think that

Jack is afraid

80 KNOTS

Jack pretends that

Jack is not afraid of Jill

so that Jill will be more afraid of Jack

and since Jill is afraid

that Jack will think that

Jill is afraid

Jill pretends that

Jill is not afraid of Jill

Thus

Jack tries to make Jill afraid

by not being afraid of Jill

and Jill tries to make Jack afraid

by not being afraid of Jack

The more Jack is afraid of Jill

the more frightened is Jack that

Jill will think

that Jack is afraid

KNOTS 81

the more Jill is afraid of Jack

the more frightened is Jill that

Jack will think

that Jill is afraid

the more afraid Jack is of Jill

the more frightened Jack is

not to be frightened of Jill

because it is very dangerous not to be

afraid when

faced with one so dangerous

Jack is frightened because Jill is

dangerous

Jill appears dangerous because Jack is

frightened

the more afraid Jill is of Jack

the more frightened Jill is

not to be frightened of Jack

82 KNOTS

The more Jack is frightened not to be

frightened

the more frightened he is to appear

frightened

the more frightened Jill is

not to he frightened

the more frightened Jill is

to appear to be frightened

the more frightened each is,

the less frightened each appears to be

Jack is frightened

not to be frightened at Jill

and to appear to be frightened at Jill

and that Jill be not frightened at Jack

Jill is frightened

not to be frightened at Jack

and to appear to be frightened at Jack

KNOTS 83

and that Jack be not frightened at Jill

Jack therefore tries to frighten Jill

by appearing not to be frightened

that she appears not to be frightened

and Jill tries to frighten Jack

by appearing not to be frightened

that he appears not to be frightened

The more Jack tries to appear not to be

frightened

the more frightened he is that

he is not frightened

that he appears to be frightened

that Jill is not frightened

the more Jill tries to appear not to be

frightened

the more frightened she is that

84 KNOTS

she is not frightened

that she appears to be frightened

that Jack is not frightened

The more this is so

the more Jack frightens Jill

by appearing not to be frightened

and the more Jill frightens Jack

by appearing not to be frightened

Can each become frightened of being

frightened and of frightening

instead of being frightened

not to be frightened

and not to frighten?

Can Jack and Jill

terrified that each and the other are

not terrified

become

terrified that each and other are

terrified, and

KNOTS 85

eventually,

not terrified that each and other not be

terrified?

5

All in all

Each man in all men

all men in each man

All being in each being

Each being in all being

All in each

Each in all

All distinctions are mind, by mind, in

mind, of mind

No distinctions no mind to distinguish

One is inside

KNOTS 87

then outside what one has been inside

One feels empty

because there is nothing inside oneself

One tries to get inside oneself

that inside of the outside

that one was once inside

once one tries to get oneself inside

what

one is outside:

to eat and to be eaten

to have the outside inside and to be

inside the outside

But this is not enough. One is trying to

get

the inside of what one is outside inside,

and to

get inside the outside. But one does not

get

inside the outside by getting the outside

inside

88 KNOTS

for;

although one is full inside of the inside of

the outside

one is on the outside of one’s own inside

and by getting inside the outside

one remains empty because

while one is on the inside

even the inside of the outside is outside

and inside oneself there is still nothing

There has never been anything else

and there never will be

I am doing it

the it I am doing is

the I that is doing it

the I that is doing it is

the it I am doing

it is doing the I that am doing it

I am being done by the it I am doing

it is doing it

KNOTS 89

One is afraid of

the self that is afraid of

the self that is afraid of

the self that is afraid

One may perhaps speak of reflections

Although innumerable beings have been led to

Nirvana no being has been led to Nirvana

Before one goes through the gate

one may not be aware there is a gate

One may think there is a gate to go

through

and look a long time for it

without finding it

One may find it and

it may not open

If it opens one may be through it

As one goes through it

one sees that the gate one went through

90 KNOTS

was the self that went through it

no one went through a gate

there was no gate to go through

no one ever found a gate

no one ever realized there was never a gate

By those who know the discourse on dharmas

as like unto a raft

dharmas should be forsaken, still more so no-

dharmas

Hearing that dharmas, and still more so,

no-dharmas

should be forsaken

some are of the opinion that there is no

gate

that is their opinion

there is no way of knowing except to go

through it

KNOTS 91

a finger points to the moon

Put the expression

a finger points to the moon, in brackets

(a finger points to the moon)

The statement:

‘A finger points to the moon is in

brackets’

is an attempt to say that all that is in the

bracket

( )

is, as to that which is not in the bracket,

what a finger is to the moon

Put all possible expressions in brackets

Put all possible forms in brackets

and put the brackets in brackets

Every expression, and every form,

is to what is expressionless and formless

what a finger is to the moon

all expressions and all forms

point to the expressionless and formless

92 KNOTS

the proposition

‘All forms point to the formless’

is itself a formal proposition

Not,

as finger to moon

so form to formless

but,

as finger is to moon

so

are to

What an interesting finger

let me suck it

It’s not an interesting finger

take it away

KNOTS 93

The statement is pointless

The finger is speechless

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